TAO LIN

10/14/2005

my entire correspondence with n+1 including when benjamin kunkel emailed me a private email and when i lied to them about harper's

(*'s indicate footnotes; there're seven—*, **, ***, ****, *****, ******, *******—scroll down for them)
From: Tao Lin
To: editors@nplusonemag.com
Date: Dec 21, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Attn: Fiction Editor

Hi, N+1,

My name is Tao Lin. Here's a short story submission. I'm forthcoming in *punk planet magazine, *hobart. I'm online at *pindeldyboz, *eyeshot, etc. Thanks for reading this. It's a simultaneous submission,

Tao Lin
one day later (i sent them the same story again; don't remember if i had a legitimate reason for this; probably not)
From: Tao Lin
To: editors@nplusonemag.com
Date: Dec 22, 2004 12:25 PM
Subject: Attn: Fiction Editor

Hi, N+1,

My name is Tao Lin. Here's a short story submission. I'm forthcoming in *punk planet magazine, *hobart. I'm online at *pindeldyboz, *eyeshot, etc. Thanks for reading this. It's a **very simultaneously submitted submission.

Tao Lin
a day and a half later
From: Benjamin Kunkel
To: Tao Lin, editors@nplusonemag.com
Date: Dec 24, 2004 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: Fiction Editor

Dear Tao Lin,

Thanks very much for your submission. We're ***in the midst of putting together and laying out our second issue, so it will be a while before we get a chance to read your story. But we--I--look forward to it.

Things sometimes ***fall through the cracks at n+1, so please get back in touch if you haven't heard from me or one of my fellow editors within the next two months. Meanwhile consider subscribing to n+1 at the low rate of $16 a year: http://www.nplusonemag.com/subscribe.html.

Best of luck with your work. Yours sincerely,

Benjamin Kunkel (for n+1)
one month and thirty days later
From: Tao Lin
To: Benjamin Kunkel
Date: Feb 23, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fiction Editor

Hi, Benjamin. Just giving you a two-month 'reminder' on this. Thanks, Tao.
over a month later
From: Tao Lin
To: Benjamin Kunkel
Date: Mar 31, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Fiction Editor

hi, Benjamin

i'd like to withdraw my story 'love is a thing on sale for more money than there exists,' submitted 12.21.04, as it has been accepted by Other Voices

thanks

sorry for any trouble

tao lin
that night
From: Benjamin Kunkel
To: Tao Lin, Benjamin Kunkel
Cc: Editors of n+1
Date: Apr 1, 2005 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: Fiction Editor

Dear Tao Lin,

My congratulations on placing your story in Other Voices.

Please feel free to send us more fiction in the future. Yours,

Benjamin Kunkel (for n+1)
four days later
From: Tao Lin
To: Benjamin Kunkel
Date: Apr 5, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: ATTN: Fiction Editor

Hi, here is a short story submission for N+1 magazine.

My stories are forthcoming in The Cincinnati Review, Other Voices, The Portland Review, Kitchen Sink Magazine, Punk Planet Magazine, and others.

Thanks,

Tao Lin
ten days later
From: Benjamin Kunkel
To: Tao Lin, Editors of n+1
Date: Apr 15, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: n+1 magazine

Dear Tao Lin,

I'm afraid we won't be able to use your story ****"Love is the Indifferent God..." It's well-written throughout, but it seemed too deliberately whimsical to fit in with what we're trying to do with n+1 #3.

Thanks for your interest in the magazine, and congratulations on placing your stories in so many excellent publications. Yours,

Benjamin Kunkel (for n+1)


> [Original Message]
> From: Benjamin Kunkel
> To: Editors of n+1
> Date: 4/8/2005 12:49:33 AM
> Subject: Tao Lin's story
>
> Dear All,
>
> Well, I read or tried to read Tao Lin's story. *****It's not horrible, nor horribly written--some of it is pretty nice--but I found it over-rhetorical, full of the deliberate whimsy afflicting many of our younger writers, and it seemed kind of aimless too, although I might not have thought so if I'd read through to the end.
>
> I'll reject in on Monday unless someone begins to champion it. Yrs
>
> Ben
eight days later
From: Tao Lin
To: editors@nplusonemag.com
Date: Apr 16, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: Attn: Fiction Editor

Hi, here is another submission. I'll be honest, ******this is the best story i've written i think, maybe. It's a simultaneous submission.

My fiction is forthcoming in The Cincinnati Review, Portland Review, Other Voices, Opium Print, and other places.

Thanks for reading,

Tao Lin
five months and thirteen days later
From: Tao Lin
To: editors@nplusonemag.com
Date: Sep 28, 2005 2:31 AM
Subject: Submission Status for Tao Lin

Dear N+1,

I submitted a story on April 16th called "Cull the Steel Heart..."
And am just e-mailing to check on that.
Thanks,

Tao Lin
half a month later
From: Tao Lin
To: editors@nplusonemag.com
Date: Oct 12, 2005 1:10 PM
Subject: Submission Withdrawal

Dear N+1,
Please withdraw my story, "Cull the Steel Heart...," submitted 4/16/05 from consideration, as it's been accepted by Harper's. Thanks.
Tao Lin
next morning
From: Marco Roth
To: Tao Lin
Date: Oct 13, 2005 5:54 AM

Dear Tao Lin,
Congratulations on having your story accepted by Harper's.
with best wishes,
Marco Roth (for n+1)
that afternoon
From: Tao Lin
To: Marco Roth
Date: Oct 13, 2005 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: Submission Withdrawal

Dear N+1,
*******Just kidding. It wasn't accepted by Harper's. Thought I'd just do something insane, like say my story was accepted by Harper's when it wasn't. Thanks for participating.
Tao
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* it annoys me that i didn't capitalize these magazines but did capitalize my own name like myself in relation to those magazines was like god in pronoun form in relation to myself in pronoun form; and why that annoys me is because it annoys me that god is capitalized in pronoun form but normal people aren't, and even greek gods or satan i think aren't; when people do that—write He instead of he when it's jesus or god—i always feel embarrassed and stupid and vaguely self-righteous and fourteen years old and like the person who capitalized the pronoun is trying to convert me to christianity and i'm being stubborn and immature for not converting and should 'grow up' and convert and deal with it; and, so, actually, i think it's this last sentence, somehow, out of all this, that is the real cause of why i feel annoyed about not capitalizing those magazines
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
** i feel stupid about 'very simultaneously'; did i think they'd panic and read it faster and panic more and then accept it out of the fear that the new yorker or harper's might accept it first?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** 'in the midst'; 'fall through the cracks'; i feel strange when 'stock phrases' like that are used; it's a sort of received knowledge in that you stop thinking openly and without preconception; your brain, in the process of trying to express something specific and unique and simple and personal (without help from other perspectives that are not your own), is stopped, as if by someone else's brain, stopped and told, 'go home, brain, we don't need you,' and then it puts the stock phrase there; and that is received knowledge; and i feel once-removed from the person who is actually trying to communicate to me; and that is why i 'feel strange' about stock phrases (unless the writer uses them consciously, as some do—uses them ironically, in a way that changes their 'received' meanings; for example, saying, 'things sometimes fall through the cracks at n+1 because our office has cracks on its floor') (and this was just an email but it happens all the time in literature—this disregard for the actual meanings of individual words—though there are exceptions and one is jean rhys' good morning, midnight; jean rhys was intolerant of received knowledge; i read that in an essay in the review of contemporary fiction that itself was almost all received knowledge)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**** love is the indifferent god of the religion in which universe is church

it'll appear in spring 2006 in an issue of spork edited by kevin sampsell

here are the first three paragraphs of the draft i sent n+1; these paragraphs have since been cut, and won't be in the spork draft:
Sean had been spending his nights leisurely, with much intuition and very little actual engagement with the real world—the real world outside that was really happening. He was twenty-one. He lived with his older brother, Chris, in Manhattan, and dreamt mostly of love. These were terrible, cloying dreams. They involved prolonged moments of passion, vague and painted colors, and people sitting around in a sort of curtained and euphoric gloom, which was what love, in Sean’s dreams, seemed to be. He slept in the daytime, on the sofa, and would wake, sometimes, with such an awful, spongy feeling of love—the soggy cake of it pressed against his heart like another heart—that he would then move through the apartment, the one long room of it, like a hallway gone wrong, in an unenlightened sort of searching (where was the beloved?), not touching anything, but just moving, between things (piles of clothes, the TV, the low white raft of his brother’s bed), feeling husked and ancient and—sitting, then, back on the sofa—thankless, as what was there, in this cheap and witless world, to be thankful for? Not much, Sean knew. He didn’t like the world, and the world had perhaps grown weary of him.

The world was weary of him!

Though probably it was not even love that Sean dreamed of, but some sleight of love, some trick of crush or inwardly thwarted desire, like a chemical seed; or else some boldly fraudulent expectation—an expectation that leads a fantasy out into the real world, gets it an apartment and, illegally, a job—as Sean had probably never been in love. He’d once told a girlfriend that he loved her, but had then felt suddenly vanquished, as if in swift and arrow-y battle, on some nighttime field; as if the world, in that moment, had thought of him, and mastered him; memorized and set him aside, like a learned thing. The world was maybe finished with Sean. And yet—he remained. Alive, doing things (eating, writing a novel, moving to Manhattan), as there was still, and always, the feeling—the suspicion—that the world knew him, and loved him, that the world was trying hard to convey this, was forming itself a language, progressing gradually, thoughtwardly, and slowly, along. Which was, perhaps, the sensation of being alive—the reason why Sean existed, kept going—the waiting of that, the faith in it, that there was a big thing of love out there, a mansion of it, and that the world, however incompetent, was trying every day to get Sean there, was thinking of where he should go, and how.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** i really like the structure of this sentence; it's a kind of lorrie moore sentence in that it qualifies, turns back on itself, questions its own rhetoric a little; it's pleasant to read, and has an intelligence to it; i like sentences with em-dash parentheticals in them; it is like giving a sentence a brain, to give it an em-dash parenthetical; it's a kind of hesitation, a moment of thought
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
****** it's this one, and i like it because it has politics in it and homeless people and a satanic ska-punk band and it also has me in it and what we are inside of—the politics, the homeless people, the ska-punk band, me—is the story, and the story does not give us free will (it's already written) and it treats us all, eventually, the same, with death (with no more words, a last page); and the story's relationship to its characters is analogous to the universe's relationship to its characters (me, others); and so we are just words on a page, already happened (schopenhauer said that, said there's a consolation to that, and there is, i feel).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
******* some of you might be thinking 'why did he post this'; the last time i did something like this almost everyone assumed—almost everyone superimposed the cliche, and the same thing happened, to a lesser extent, with ben marcus' essay—that i did it to show how 'bad' a person elizabeth spiers (benjamin kunkel, n+1; jonathan franzen, etc) is, to somehow 'get back' at whatever person by 'exposing' them; but that is not true at all, to me; it's false to 'get back,' to 'hate,' to 'dislike,' even, and i know that; and by 'false' i mean it's a disconnection from the way things really are: we're born, we have no choice, the first choiceless thing happens to us and that is the cause to every effect and we are that effect (we're just one effect, and each thing before us is just one effect; and so the world, perhaps, is just one effect; that's it) and finally we die; 'good' or 'bad' have no place in that, and so neither do 'hate' or 'like'

i think it's 'okay' to 'disrupt' people's lives, though, like by lying about something

if someone thinks they know what they want in life, and it is a thing, an abstraction, that is unfulfillable—success, power, influence, happiness, etc.—then that can only cause more pain and suffering for other people maybe

and when you disrupt their lives they have to stop a little (acknowledge the em-dash parenthetical just inserted into their thoughts, somehow deal with that) and so then they have a chance maybe to remember a little that they actually don't know what they want in life

and since this is a literary site, i think that's relevant (though, probably, no; i think, if one is to not have illusions, everything should be taken into account, at once, so that 'art' and 'reality,' or 'life,' are the same)

in that if a writer wants to write about 'truth' then he or she will probably need to learn to think objectively, without illusions (when you think objectively, 'like' and 'dislike' and 'important' and 'good' and 'bad' and 'evil' (as in 'george bush is evil') and 'politics' become meaningless words)

to think that a kind of tone, a kind of worldview or personality—detached, neurotic, whimsical or whatever—can, quoting kunkel now (though he was being a bit 'ironic' or something, i think, when he said it, maybe, though that's irrelevant to this, which isn't directed at him really), be 'afflictive' (which implies a worldview where things are 'good' or 'bad') to writing is less 'objective' than 'another illusion,' which is a kind of intolerance or prejudice

but, because i am attempting to think objectively in this post, i am not going to say that it is 'bad' to think that whimsical writing is 'afflictive,' that it is 'bad' to have 'illusions' or be 'intolerant' or 'prejudiced'

because for a thing to be 'good' or 'bad' you have to know what you want in life; you have to know the meaning of life; you have to know what other people want in life, what they think the meaning of life is; you have to aggregate all that and put it in a computer and maybe survey animals too (dogs, cats, whales) and then you can still only determine if a thing is a certain percentage good or bad that changes depending on a context

that is an illusion also, to know (what you want, what the meaning of life is), when you think objectively, the word 'meaning' doesn't 'mean' anything and is irrelevant; things just are

if you're confused what the 'point' of this post is you could just accept that maybe; that i didn't have any intentions, really, with this post, except maybe to think about some things and type them and try to be objective and get 'outside' of 'good' and 'bad,' to not have an 'identity' and to sabotage myself a little and do something to relieve boredom

and to become a little less secretive with things and maybe disrupt some things; myself maybe, to disrupt my aspirations for publication, success, etc. and disillusion myself a little more

19 Comments:

Blogger lily said...

as if I don't spend enough time reading my own email, now I get to read yours.*

this blog frightens me.

sometime I'll come back and read that post that apparently is you writing about ben marcus writing about jonathan franzen. then maybe I'll write about you writing about ben marcus writing about jonathan franzen.

*yours is more interesting.++

++the little bit that I read. I didn't read the footnotes.

2:34 AM  
Blogger Geraldine said...

Why the hell did he include the internal memo to the editors in his email to you?? How insensitive...

4:16 AM  
Blogger Karin said...

I referenced this post on PhillyWriters and yes, I succumbed to the cliche of hinting you claimed to be published in Harper's as a means to gain attention and to 'get even' -- because even you have to admit that at SOME level, it's true, despite all your metaphysical reasoning.

It's really funny you did that, though. You're my new hero. It is helpful for amateur writers to read correspondences like that -- it's very eye-opening. You've shown us the reality of a situation, which is good. I think it's important for writers to shed as many illusions about themselves, the writing process, the publishing industry, etc. as they can. Your just defeating yourself otherwise.

Ego is the biggest enemy.

12:32 PM  
Blogger Hissy Cat said...

Bookslut linked to you, Reader! It's no Gawker, but still. I'm proud.

1:52 PM  
Blogger Tao Lin said...

lily:

you 'one-upped' me in a way by putting footnotes in your footnotes


geraldine:

by accident; but i liked it; he was kind of funny in his internal memo; and one time i was reading submissions for a magazine and i left one submission on my desk for something like eight months and then i didn't know what to do so i ripped it in half and threw it away!

i think i cut it in half with scissors; i just panicked, it was one of those panic things


karin:

it's true, probably some of it is to 'gain attention,' or rather, more accurately, to just do something that doesn't make me feel tired of myself and bored with the world, though i am pretty sure that very little or none of it is to 'get even' because i don't see what i have to 'get even' about

3:22 PM  
Blogger Tao Lin said...

penny:

glad you're proud

3:23 PM  
Blogger Pete said...

"not horrible, nor horribly written"

Gee, I wish my own writing could get such strong feedback from a soon-to-be-former literary-flavor-of-the-month.

5:31 PM  
Blogger The Man Who Couldn't Blog said...

I said this to you privately, but I'd also like to say it in this forum: I love that Benjamin Kunkel is already referring to "our younger writers."

Ah, Ben Kunkel. You grand old man of literature.

11:56 PM  
Blogger Tao Lin said...

if i create a literary magazine here's the form rejection letter:

'Sorry. But your submission was full of the ____ afflicting many of our ____. Thanks.'

i like that bracketing of 'Sorry' and 'Thanks'; i feel like it would confuse the submitter into subscribing somehow

1:26 AM  
Blogger Benny said...

I have to second amazement over that "younger writers" comment. Especially when B. K.'s whole novel is kinda "whimsy" and when so many readers (from critics to the average schmoes on Amazon) have had difficulty reading to the end of it.

But he sure is cute, isn't he?

8:42 AM  
Blogger Gothamimage said...

That Kunkel reference to "our younger writers" was hilarious. Does he think he is some Edmund Wilson reincarnated?

From now on, I will have to view him with amused condescencion and I have not read his novel yet.

Maybe I'll post some fiction on my blog too - maybe not.

9:19 AM  
Blogger Karin said...

I only meant 'getting even' in the sense that you exposed something in BK -- and likely the publishing community as whole -- that we all do, which is present information in a nicer light to those we wish not to offend, only to present the same information in a lesser light to those with whom we are honest (at best) or trying to impress, hence the 'so many of our younger writers...' comment.

So, 'getting even':

1. You were rejected and your prose was somewhat insulted 'well-written, but too whimsical'.

2. You were exposed inadvertently to his correspondence, which suggested 'whimsy' is some kind of plague.

3. You sent them a false letter saying you were accepted in Harper's -- a supposedly superior publication to n+1, possibly resulting in thinking like, "How could we (n+1) turn you down if Harper's didn't?", or "Maybe I (BK) don't know what I'm doing."

4. Then you said, "No, I'm just kidding", and they probably had a chuckle, "Oh what a funny guy."

5. But then you posted the whole thing on your blog, exposing BKs duplicity to a large number of people, almost all of whom are aspiring writers, possibly diminishing BKs credibility to a small degree.

I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just saying it's a form of revenge.

10:22 AM  
Blogger Tao Lin said...

b:

i saw him read and he wore tight clown pants; my friend said they were just hipster pants; but i'm pretty sure they were clown pants, with stripes


goth:

maybe he meant young 'in spirit,' because he feels old on the inside—a cry for help, maybe


karin:

you're right, i guess

but it's not revenge to me

in real life i do things like this and it's for fun, not revenge

or maybe it's just fun to get revenge

i think even that it's fun when someone gets revenge on me

4:05 PM  
Blogger Richard said...

I love you.

1:12 PM  
Blogger Benny said...

The words hipster and clown may often be used interchangeably. It says so in the OED.

But in the NYT, at least, he looked a little like Viggo Mortensen. Sans proper battle armor.

8:20 AM  
Blogger Karin said...

Wow. This is the strangest blog space out there. Proclamations of love, cyberspace battles, impersonators -- Lily is actually afraid to be here.

9:49 AM  
Blogger Tao Lin said...

richard:

good


b:

in real life he looks and acts like a twelfth century bard, with clown pants


karin:

i kind of miss my impersonator

12:19 PM  
Blogger fancypants said...

T.L.,

you are the best.

1:50 PM  
Blogger fairest said...

hey, i got to this from the the elegant variation blog that is ALSO printing these emails. pretty funny.

but the obvious is question is why do you submit to this magazine anyway? anyone who writes "the deliberate whimsy affecting the youngest of our writers" deserves to be shot, not submitted to. especially when he himself is under 65! next time, mail a bomb. do it on the forth of july. call the press beforehand.

i can never hear the name kunkel without thinking of that donald antrim book. with the character kunkel.

11:14 AM  

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