noah cicero's bear parade book and an interview
transmissions from noah x to tao x
Noah Cicero is from Youngstown OH. He has been the mental ward twice. Has been given these pills by doctors, Prozac, Risperdal, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Seroquel, Provilgil, and the almighty Effexor.
Noah Cicero is from Youngstown OH. He has been the mental ward twice. Has been given these pills by doctors, Prozac, Risperdal, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Seroquel, Provilgil, and the almighty Effexor.
me: noah
Noah: thank god i'm about dead
Ive been driving charley around all day
me: she took 20 percocet
Noah: i slept three hours
me: how did she afford that
Noah: she took 15 while i was with her
me: buy her a health bar
Noah: over the course of 8 hours
me: buy her a banana
Noah: she took twenty vicidins when she got her molars pulled out
she has no bottom big teeth on the left side her mouth
they were black she said
me: let me interview you real fast
so i can delete that dumb ass post i made
and put the interview under your link to
Noah: I have only slept 3 hours
me: the bear parade book
it's ok
Noah: i liked the post
me: i'm interviewing you
Noah: okay go ahead
me: why is the ship called the big fat vegan titty
Noah: I don't know. I couldn't think of anything else. I wanted it to be stupid.
me: do octopuses have crotches, where are they located on it
Noah: In their mouths
me: is it illegal to put your penis on an alpaca if your penis is not erect
Noah: people are dying all around me
true
some dancer died last week
then bernice's cousin
me: how old are these people
Noah: women keep killing their babies
in youngstown and warren
me: people are dying everywhere
Noah: some guy in girard lit his wife and kids on fire
me: except in manhattan
no one here ever dies
Noah: interview me
me: ok
you changed the subject
ok, i'm starting now
Noah: back in the day they used to say "Limited knowledge", now they say, "drooling idiot"
me: say something about bear parade
Noah: why is that
bear parade is the future
me: say something about fried octopus wrapped in bacon
wait
i need to start ov er
the interview is starting now
don't type anything yet
Noah: Everyone involved with bear parade will still be famous in a 1000 years
no, the interview is good
i like it
me: why do we need to be famous
Noah: I don't know
i don't even know what famous is
me: is jean rhys' bones enjoying her fame
Noah: i've never met a famous person
I don't know
me: they might
Noah: I don't know what is going on
I just said it
because i think,
it was stupid
me: is this the interview
Noah: and i have no interest in being intelligent or witty or clever at this moment
wait, i feel a bit clever
me: say something factual
Noah: soccar rules
me: an octopus has 8 arms
i read a 400 page book on sea beasts
Noah: I'm wearing black socks
me: am i an asshole
Noah: no
me: name five assholes
Noah: someone read me the giant retarded moth on the phone the other day, i liked it
me: oh thank you
ellen wrote the last chapter
Noah: You and ellen work good together
me: we have 8 books to write
why did the dog call people assholes
in your book
Noah: Because he was tired of being told what to do
and doing what he was told to do
me: you really got inside the mind of a dog
i feel like larry king live
Noah: I just remembered that somebody else wrote a chapter about a dog
tell people that was a statement on that short story
me: i read in a comic book, it said that criticism is really just self-definition
Noah: tell people i'm making a statement
me: a way to define your self
i haven't read any writer had that kind of insight ever
i think writer's are dumber than most people
Noah: Critizing is better than smoking crack
me: they aren't smarter
Noah: Buddhists say you shouldn't compare
me: do they say that
Noah: I think so
me: buddhists don't talk
they shouldn't be saying things
tell it to be quiet
Noah: no they shouldn't
if they talk they have the desire to communicate
me: if they move around they have the desire to move around
they are just confused
Noah: They should just sit and die
me: at least they are quiet
Noah: I think a lot of working class people have reached a strange zen state
me: and do interesting things like light themselves on fire
Noah: at least they are quiet: AGREE
yeah
that is kind of cool
me: it is creative
the strand had no books by richard ytes
Noah: I think my father lived in a zen state of being. He did not speak. He just walked around. He would wake up, and be like, "Today is tuesday," Put on his clothes, go to work, work, come home, sit in the same chair read the paper, then go to sleep. It seemed like his mind was quiet.
Did they have any by Erskine Caldwell
I'm reading a special providence
me: i didnt look
is this the interview
we are off topic
Noah: This is more than an interview. This is a declaration
get back on topic
i've slept 3 hours
me: i dont know, what is the topic
Noah: I want to talk about religion
I like the line, "And the sun shines on sinners too"
I don't think that is exact
the sun shines on sinners
me: i dont want to talk about religion
Noah: all right, pick a topic
me: my brain is telling me i'm stupid
you pick one
Noah: I can't think
I'm seriously tired
me: ok, we fucked
Noah: but i have to leave soon to pick somebody up
me: that is the conclusion
at least we established that, we made progress
Noah: i'm sorry tao
should we try again
me: no, i'm sorry
Noah: i think i'm going to cry
me: i cried before
in the pat
ast
past
Noah: people are so mean
me: should i jsut post this entire thing
people are assholes
i've been saying that for 15 years
Noah: have you seen the movie Harvey
with Jimmy Stewart
me: you say butthole then later you say asshole
that is the apex of knowledge
you move from butthole to asshole
i think in 6th grade
no i havent
Noah: It is a good movie
me: am i posting this
is this literary
tell me what to do and i'll do it
Noah: No one cares about literary
me: tell me what to do
Noah: people want gossip
me: you're my religion
i saw john updike slapping a baby's ass
Noah: Maud Newton is gossip headlines
me: in washington square park
the baby was safran foer
i saw the face
it was him
Noah: What right do we have to exist
me: we didn't choose to exist
the univser didn't choose to exist either
'choice' doesnt exist
how did anyone ever think up the word 'choice'
it must've been someone like updike
cornelius updike, 5000 b.c.
Noah: Tao I'm a Sartrean existentialist, all I think and talk and read about is choice
me: i'm a scientist
i believe in cause and effect
if i drop a rock it will fall
the rock has no choice
i'm depressed
slap me
hard
Noah: Sartre wrote about your theory in being and nothingness, he said that is a very easy theory to apply to choice. But it is simplistic. That the theory makes sense, but doesn't work when actually applied closely to the behaviors of a human, taking into consideration the person's life, and the context of the behaviors
me: you had no choice at the moment of your birth, each action therefore was caused by the thing that happened before. going back, the universe had no choice whether or not to exist, if there is no choice in the beginning, choice cannot enter into the system. it is just a complex version of a dropping a rock. the rock obeys physical laws of the universe. sartre didn't observe the human brain closely with microscopes to see if neurons or whatever broke physical laws. it's impossible to prove choice, the word 'choice' is meaningless
Noah: All right:
A 17 year male goes into a restaurant and orders a coke. Apply your theory
me: it's also impossible to comprehend how a conscious being can not have choice. but if you are severely depressed you will view your own actions in a detached way, and it is like you are reading a book and the text in the book keeps going, there is no choice, all is already there
Noah: A depressed always states, "I don't want to do nything because I hate myself." Which implies they hate their behaviors. Which implies they hate their choices. But also at the same time they must be conscious of their choices or they wouldn't be depressed and hate them.
If you have a consciousness, you have a choice
choices
me: ok. the 17 year male orders a coke. a second before he ordered the coke the configuration of his brain was in a way that he is going to order a coke. a second before that, the configuration was in a way that in two seconds he would oirder a coke, keep going back, 10000000000 seconds, to the moment of his birth, he did not have a choice then. before that, the cum sauce of his dad went into the women. the dad, going back, was born, without choice. going back, the universe did not havce a choice whether or not to begin. if it did, then it chose to began, and that is the only choice. from then on the universe operated on physical laws. you can use these laws in math to predict what will happen. it is just a complex version of predicting where the NASA space shuttle will go and when it will get there.
i know. i'm probably wrong. consciousness means we have choice. but everything else says we do not have choice. but you can also be conscious and not have choice. if you are drugged so you can't move or think, you can still be conscious, i think, and observe what is happening to you without thinking about it, maybe.
if there is choice, it exists only inside the brain. everything outside the brain operates on physical laws, and choice cannot enter into a system of physical laws.
Noah: How about the boy ordered the coke because through out his life he given many different sodas to drink. And he chose that soda as his favorite. But also what must be added, He didn't order a shot gun or a dinasaur because he is conscious he is in a restaurant and he knows he cannot order shotguns and dinasaurs.
you got it, existentialism: Man is faced with an indifferent contingent world
Man is in a state of anquish, because he must always choose.
me: yes, that doesn't change anything. that is the way you view it if you want to talk about it without getting too philosophical
yes
everything is the same, no one is telling you what to choose, yet you must choose, i know
the universe isn't conscious, but you are conscious, so that is a contradiction
but if you think harder you will see that there is no choice, consciousness is just another thing inside the universe
noah, i'm fucking stupid, someone punch me in the face with a rock
if you are raised to believe that you are a robot without choice, that consciousness is just a method of observing what is happenign to you, and what your body is doing, in the world, then you will believe that probably
consciousness is separate from the body. it is just a means to observe what the body, which is not you, is doing, in the world. consciousnes does not exist in the world, does that make sense
Noah: Yeah:
me: what causes despair and suffering is that we believe that we have choice over the body, instaed of just observing
Noah: " if you are raised to believe that you are a robot without choice, that consciousness is just a method of observing what is happenign to you, and what your body is doing, in the world, then you will believe that probably"
i would say that happens through a good amount of violence though.
me: yeah a lot of people probably like that
i dont know if they feel shitty or what
Noah: parents will beat thought out of their children, make them afraid of choosing, till they decide that it is best left to high powers to make chocies for them
i think they feel uneasy
me: we aren't communicating
Noah: it would be hard to carry around that many contradictions in one brain
me: now i'm eating a banana
most people never think about this shit, so it doesn't affect them
Noah: someone gave me a banana holder yesterday, i thought of you
no
me: thank you
i mean it does affect them
but
Noah: most people think, then they say it outloud to someone else, then they get beat up or told to shut up
me: i think, then say something, then the person walks away or i walk away
the other person talks i stare at their face thinking about that i'm staring at them talking
Noah: I worked as a server at Denny's for six months. I worked on kid's night on tuesdays. This is what happened: Black people would order their 3 year olds sprite. The white people would order them coke. Dad's would force their six year olds to eat over easy eggs because they eat over easy eggs.
Parents want their children to be like them. Even if they suck and they know it
drink your goddman coke, SLAP!
me: if i had a child i would not comprehend that it exists, i would treat it as a toy
especially from ages 0-10
still, i would understand it feels pain and would be nice to it
i treat hamsters nice, i make sure it has creative stimulation with lots of tubes and shit in its cage
Noah: I would sell to a nice couple in siberia or cambodia
me: did you read fran's comment
she said i lost my way
Noah: no where is it
me: on the blog
comments
Noah: I'm looking
Yeah, your name means THe WAY
Hey baby why don't you come my way
it's my way or the highway
I'm retarded
you are different than last year
me: am i really
Noah: hmm
I don't know
do yuo feel different
me: tell me the truth
Noah: are you disillusioned
me: just tell me
Noah: I think she thinks you might not have talked so much shit last year
you were less confronting
me: i talked a lot of shit last year
i talk less shit now
i use more facts
before i talked shit
now i use facts
Noah: you were controversial, but confronting
not confronting
there is a difference
me: what happened
what am i now
just tell me if i fucked up or not
that is all that amteters
Noah: say you said, "John updike sucks" That would be controversial. Now if you said, "John Updike sucks shit and if you read him you suck shit" that is confronting
no, i think it is great
but i am a pizza boy who doesn't make any money writing
me: i wrote things on editing
i wrote for 2 hours on editing
i did fake interviews
Noah: I liked all of that
me: no, i didnt post it yet
Noah: the fake interviews
me: i just wrote this line in a poem
my heart feels like an erect penis wrapped tightly in saran wrap until it is a ball of erect penis
Noah: good
me: what emotional adjective does that sound like
is it lonely or sad or what
Noah: do you think you fucked up
me: less people read my blog
each post concludes that humans are fucked
i dont know
Noah: maybe you should go back too, a nice depression. An Elizabeth Wurtzel which is caused by your hard days of studying at an ivy league college
me: i need to go switch computers, tell me to post this or not. i will do what you say.
go back where
Noah: I don't care
me: i need to hear yes or no, i am not fit to make decisions, i'm afraid
Noah: I think people thought two things. 1. you were having an Elizabeth Wurtzel Prozac Nation depression and that you were an asian american writer and you were going to write a great asian american depression book. But you didn't do either
me: i wrote the great american chabon bin laden novel, it was 800 words
i need to go, tell me to post this or not
Noah: I don't know
me: i can't make decisions, i just regret whatever i made
tell me, exercise your free will
Noah: i just regret whatever i made
yeah post it
me: okay
thank you
ok
i gotta go
say something about updike's crotch
Noah: lonely
gotta shit
3:45 PM
15 Comments:
If you want to know what I meant in specific, then you should just ask me and not hint at Noah that he should guess about what I think. No one should speak for me but me.
I said what I did for many reasons, I had been thinking of several specific things (that I'm not listing here), but I think Noah's right about one difference between your stuff from then and now, only where he used the word "confrontational," I would also add the word "moral." I'm very controversial and confrontational--I don't have a problem with either as long as they aren't too extreme and individuals don't start getting hurt all over the place.
I think that going on your writings, your web behavior and your writings about your real-life behavior, all of which admittedly may be inexact stuff to go on, you've become too extreme in some ways, which can be and is very harmful both to you and others, as I've said here before and as you seemingly haven't listened to so probably won't to listen again, so I'm probably wasting my breath yet again. But, also, when I hear people moralizing and passing unfair judgments on others (and especially repeatedly using the moralist-phrases "good person" and "bad person," which always make me fucking sick) especially when those judgments are based in subjective assumptions presented as if they're "facts" without "proof" to back them up--that makes me wanna puke. I cannot comfortably read that shit without feeling very mad, so I stop reading that shit.
It often seems to me like the mind behind your posts has become Twiggy-narrow. I think you're mistaken about your writing: you used to qualify things more. Now you seem to have an aversion to qualifying ideas with doubt, an aversion to widening your mind and viewpoints. I think your writing has become increasingly dogmatic and decreasingly "accurate" (I mean to the outside world, I don't know how accurate your writing is to your intent, only you can probably know that), which is like the antithesis of what I personally strive for. It also is the antithesis of supposedly "factual" writing and thinking, in my opinion and experience.
Look, my opinion is my opinion. It doesn't matter, especially considering I'm pretty sure there's no one else even remotely like me on this planet. If you want to know what nearly everyone on earth thinks about something, you could just ask me what I think, take the negation of that--and there you've got what practically everyone else's opinion likely is.
I think you (and everyone) should probably do what you feel comfortable doing. But if my comment has upset you at all, then maybe you should consider what I said as possibly having some basis in "fact," at least your subconscious may be telling you so.
I'll depart now. I'm getting too Freudian or Jungian or something. That whatever-till-forever thing still applies. Just consider this post a temporary perturbation in that whatever-till-forever universe.
I've got to say one more thing. Help me, help me--I can't stop posting! Sometimes I'm so full of shit when I say I won't post anymore. I don't intend to be full of shit, but I ultimately am. I do this at my blog too.
Anyway, I can't stop laughing at this: "that is all that amteters." I used to talk in chatrooms and over instant messenger, and I spent half the time laughing at everyone's misspellings, including mine, which were numerous because I'm a bad typist.
I'm assuming you meant "matters." Though "amteters" sounds more desperate somehow. Some misspellings are hysterical. In my other post I first spelled "metaphorically" as "methaphorically." I should have left that spelling because it sounds like writing metaphors while on meth or something.
When I worked at that nonfiction publisher, we used to have our favorite fuck-ups. I remember this one fuck-up in a manuscript: steel-teeming ladies instead of steel-teeming ladles.
Steve once said "Asparagus is espensive" to me. I haven't stopped laughing over that; it happened eighteen years ago.
I think the only thing more pathetic than posting on my own blog on a Saturday night is posting on someone else's blog on a Saturday night.
Why the hell did you remove that other thread? Did something happen that upset you? Now some readers probably won't know what you, me and Noah are talking about in part of this one. I still have my posts from that other thread. I save everything (ever since this one time I spilled Red Zinger tea on a disk). I've saved these posts too.... If this whole topic has upset you, maybe you should delete this thread too. I'll stop talking on your blog if my doing so's a problem. Just say so outright. Really, I shouldn't be here. And I'm only talking to myself now anyway--everyone else has shut up!
Well, whatever.
Fran, you go girl!
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Tao, please think for yourself and stop fixating on and seeking the approval of "the literary community" and publishers and other writers before you can do or think something. You know, like you used to be, or at least used to claim you were, someone who claimed he couldn't understand people who listed tons of favorite books and favorite writers, someone who claimed he disliked the usual typical macho sexist writers, but now lists many books and writers he likes, many of which books are macho and sexist, and are by macho sexist writers, in my opinion. You went from sounding unique to now sounding like most other literary writers; no wonder we clash now and I feel frustrated over this.
And please ignore when people encourage you to write more about committing crimes. Please stop focusing on that dangerous aspect of your inclinations. What do those people give a shit if you wind up in jail? You'll be the one possibly getting raped, not them.* (That you're really attractive might make you even more of a target in the way (IMO) attractive people are often targets for lots of nasty stuff.) And what do they give a shit if you wind up on a morgue slab? You'll be the one on that slab, not them. Please stop playing the predominantly White And WASPy literary community's Pet Chink, the way the director of Life Is Beautiful played The Pet Dago at the Academy Awards one year with his broken English and hopping around on stage flopping his arms like a good little entertaining greaseball, and the way Sam plays The Pet Nigger in Casablanca.
Pet Chinks, Pet Dagos, Pet Niggers, Pet Spics---oooo, ain't they funny! They're so entertaining! Har-har-har! They exist simply to entertain The White And/Or WASPy, to make them smile and laugh. Never mind what happens to those pets. Many people don't give a shit about their "pets"; they exist and get attention only for those people's benefits. But once the pets can no longer entertain and satisfy those people enough, the pets are callously and disgustingly put to sleep or cut loose, the way Rick practically (and disgustingly racistly) "sells" Sam (or at least the bar with Sam in it) at the end of Casablanca when Sam stuck by him and Rick was supposed to be his friend. In the end, Rick befriends a white man and pays off the local fat cat to "look out for" Sam.
Pet Chinks can't really entertain the artsy-full-of-themselves literary community from behind bars--that's no fun, unless The Pet Chink can swing from those bars, monkey-style. Oh, I'm sure the artsy literary community would laugh at that--that would be entertaining to them--oh yeah! But they'd probably never visit that Pet Chink in jail. They'd just watch MTV videos of The Pet Chink with the sore butt-fucked asshole self-destructing behind bars.
I suggested last year that you probably needed to make a choice about the literary world or you might harm yourself. I guess you have made a choice. Hope you're happy with it for the rest of your life!
(*My father was a NYC corrections officer for years. I cannot emphasize how much I think you would not want to wind up in jail if you knew more about it; what you've said about it sounds naive. In some ways the dangers in jail are often overstated because pretty tight control is often kept over inmate behavior. However, living in jail doesn't only mean having to deal with the psychological problems of other prisoners shoved into a crowded environment; it also means having to deal with the psychological problems of some of the CORRECTIONS OFFICERS. Everyone's psychoses tend to become magnified in a prison environment. Richard has already warned you about jail being horrible. I am doing the same.)
"...but now lists many books and writers he likes, many of which books are macho and sexist, and are by macho sexist writers, in my opinion."
name the books and writers so i can stop liking them
"...Please stop playing the predominantly White And WASPy literary community's Pet Chink"
be more specific and use concrete examples so i can stop doing that
"I suggested last year that you probably needed to make a choice about the literary world or you might harm yourself. I guess you have made a choice. Hope you're happy with it for the rest of your life!"
tell me what choice i made using concrete specifics so i can learn about this
"(*My father was a NYC corrections officer for years. I cannot emphasize how much I think you would not want to wind up in jail if you knew more about it; what you've said about it sounds naive. In some ways the dangers in jail are often overstated because pretty tight control is often kept over inmate behavior. However, living in jail doesn't only mean having to deal with the psychological problems of other prisoners shoved into a crowded environment; it also means having to deal with the psychological problems of some of the CORRECTIONS OFFICERS. Everyone's psychoses tend to become magnified in a prison environment. Richard has already warned you about jail being horrible. I am doing the same.)"
my dad is in low security prison which is one above minimum security and it's good in there
i don't think i'll be going to anything above low security for making fake blurbs by miranda july
i wish i was a horse or something.
...Again, it's like you haven't heard what I suggested overall, which is that I wish you'd think for yourself and stick to using your own voice(s) and ideas. You shouldn't stop liking something because I OR ANYONE SAYS SO. Be who you "are" or whatever you want to be in whatever way you want to be--that's all I'm saying. Though I guess if "who you want to be" is someone who stops liking things at another person's criticism/suggestion, then go right ahead and do that.
I'm not listing any books or writers in specific here because I think this place has a very boy's-club atmosphere (it didn't used to be this way AT ALL, IMO), and the majority of books often mentioned here now are sexist books I can't stand by sexist writers I can't stand. I feel like just posting...ick. I don't wanna be here anymore. I've just always been drawn to people I feel might be having trouble and might be getting themselves into trouble, and if I think I can say something to possibly prevent that, I will. I don't like seeing people get hurt and hurting others. But, clearly, whatever I've said to you hasn't done shit. So I give up now. I'm not the world's fucking goddamn social worker. I've got my own fucking goddamn problems.
It's none of my business about you and your dad in specific, but I will say that IMO in general, parents don't always tell their kids what they've endured and/or have to endure, sometimes out of embarrassment, or because they don't want their kids to have to suffer what they're going through because of empathic feelings toward their parents, or because of both reasons. And I wasn't referring to fake blurb-writing; I was referring to the other behaviors you've claimed to have done.
Tao, stay safe or stay in a low-security prison where it's "good,"
Fran
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can you please use one concrete specific where i did not think for myself so that i can know what you are trying to communicate to me?
here are the authors that are famous that i think have blogged favorably on this site:
richard yates
todd hasak lowy
matthew rohrer
kurt vonnegut
fernando pessoa
frederick barthelme
jean rhys
lydia davis
lorrie moore
joy williams
ann beattie
bobbie ann mason
mary robison
trinie dalton
can you please tell me and then explain which ones and why are sexist macho assholes using only concrete specifics?
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
I think she means Richard Yates. Of course, I don't really "know."
Fran, do you mean Richard Yates?
I don't see how anyone miserable as Yates could be considered assertive enough to get called "sexist" or "macho." It'd be like whipping legless zebras.
But maybe she means somebody else!
I think she meant Updike.
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